Tom, your most recent photo makes it seem clear there are no markings on the undertail coverts. That does seem to rule out the Goshawk. Yes, it’s been a stimulating and educational interchange.
Daily Archives: April 4, 2023
Re: Hawk ID
https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Coopers_Hawk/species-compare/39231651
Check out the comparison between immature Cooper’s Hawk and immature Northern Goshawk on all about birds linked here. The thick streaks/blotches go all the way down onto the under-tail coverts on a juvenile Goshawk.
On Apr 4, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…> wrote:
Ken,First of all, great pictures. Second, I wish I had you kitchen window. Here is one more picture. It is a terrible view of everything, except for the tail, so maybe that will help. I would say it looks like the tail on Coopers.Thanks to everyone for a lively discussion, it has been very educational.Tom SonivilleFrom: IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Miracle via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2023 9:38 AM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk IDI have seen the variety of streaking size and shape but one thing that has been constant i the extension of it into the undertail coverts and I have only seen that on the Northern Goshawk.On Apr 4, 2023, at 9:18 AM, scott urban <scotturban610@…> wrote:I agree with Ken and Louisa, it’s good for immature Cooper, not Goshawk. Just for fun, here is a side-by-side picture of each bird, both taken out my kitchen window a few years ago. (Boise Foothills). I don’t completely trust the streaking pattern on these Coops as a primary identification: I have pictures of Coopers that show a range from bold teardrops, to thin streaks. I guess for me that feature falls under the category of “usually but not always”.<image001.jpg>On Apr 4, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Louisa Evers <elouisa603@…> wrote:
The belly markings are not heavy enough and the wrong shape for an immature goshawk.On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 7:31 AM David Whitacre <davewhitacre@…> wrote:I think Tom McCabe is right…my immediate take was Goshawk, and I still think so. Tom Soniville says he never saw a Coop close to this size…and everything about this bird looks super robust…plus very heavy breast/belly/flank markings that extend quite far down the belly as is typical for Gos…too bad one can’t see the tail bands better to look for the wavy margins typical of a Goshawk, but still…Dave WhitacreOn Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 8:51 PM bike4birds <tmccabe9@…> wrote:I know I’m late to this party, but I wonder if this could be an immature N. Goshawk? Size is hard to figure in a photo, but Tom said it was quite large. I agree that females are larger than males in most raptors, but I’m wondering if we are all assuming the typical hawk for this area, but it’s the time of year when ANYTHINJG could be coming through, especially given the weather. I have only occasionally seen a N. Goshawk in Boise, but it wouldn’t be unheard of. And, yes, it does have the teardrop markings, but it also appears to have a white eyebrow line.Just sayin’.Tom McCabe, BoiseFrom: IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io> On Behalf Of Louisa Evers
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 7:49 PM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk IDMay also be a female as they are bigger than males.On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 18:25 Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…> wrote:John and Louisa,Thanks for setting me straight. What threw me was the size of this Coopers. We would get them in the yard of our house in the North End, but never saw one close to this size. It must be eating well .Tom SonivilleFrom: IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Shortis via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 10:20 AM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk IDLooks like Cooper’s.The “teardrop” shaped streaks on this juvenile bird is indicative of Cooper’s.Also the rounded tail (though not glaringly evident on this bird).Nice photos!John Shortis.On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 07:49:07 PM MDT, Louisa Evers <elouisa603@…> wrote:It’s an immature Cooper’s hawkOn Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 7:47 PM Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…> wrote:Came across this hawk in the foothills this afternoon. First thought was a sharp-shinned, but it seems too large. Is this another form of red tail morph?Thanks,Tom Soniville
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End—
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End——
Ken Miracle
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End<DSC_8564m1.jpg>
Ken Miracle
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
Re: Hawk ID
Not my photos those are from Scott Urban
On Apr 4, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…> wrote:
Ken,First of all, great pictures. Second, I wish I had you kitchen window. Here is one more picture. It is a terrible view of everything, except for the tail, so maybe that will help. I would say it looks like the tail on Coopers.Thanks to everyone for a lively discussion, it has been very educational.Tom SonivilleFrom: IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Miracle via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2023 9:38 AM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk IDI have seen the variety of streaking size and shape but one thing that has been constant i the extension of it into the undertail coverts and I have only seen that on the Northern Goshawk.On Apr 4, 2023, at 9:18 AM, scott urban <scotturban610@…> wrote:I agree with Ken and Louisa, it’s good for immature Cooper, not Goshawk. Just for fun, here is a side-by-side picture of each bird, both taken out my kitchen window a few years ago. (Boise Foothills). I don’t completely trust the streaking pattern on these Coops as a primary identification: I have pictures of Coopers that show a range from bold teardrops, to thin streaks. I guess for me that feature falls under the category of “usually but not always”.<image001.jpg>On Apr 4, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Louisa Evers <elouisa603@…> wrote:
The belly markings are not heavy enough and the wrong shape for an immature goshawk.On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 7:31 AM David Whitacre <davewhitacre@…> wrote:I think Tom McCabe is right…my immediate take was Goshawk, and I still think so. Tom Soniville says he never saw a Coop close to this size…and everything about this bird looks super robust…plus very heavy breast/belly/flank markings that extend quite far down the belly as is typical for Gos…too bad one can’t see the tail bands better to look for the wavy margins typical of a Goshawk, but still…Dave WhitacreOn Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 8:51 PM bike4birds <tmccabe9@…> wrote:I know I’m late to this party, but I wonder if this could be an immature N. Goshawk? Size is hard to figure in a photo, but Tom said it was quite large. I agree that females are larger than males in most raptors, but I’m wondering if we are all assuming the typical hawk for this area, but it’s the time of year when ANYTHINJG could be coming through, especially given the weather. I have only occasionally seen a N. Goshawk in Boise, but it wouldn’t be unheard of. And, yes, it does have the teardrop markings, but it also appears to have a white eyebrow line.Just sayin’.Tom McCabe, BoiseFrom: IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io> On Behalf Of Louisa Evers
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 7:49 PM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk IDMay also be a female as they are bigger than males.On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 18:25 Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…> wrote:John and Louisa,Thanks for setting me straight. What threw me was the size of this Coopers. We would get them in the yard of our house in the North End, but never saw one close to this size. It must be eating well .Tom SonivilleFrom: IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Shortis via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 10:20 AM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk IDLooks like Cooper’s.The “teardrop” shaped streaks on this juvenile bird is indicative of Cooper’s.Also the rounded tail (though not glaringly evident on this bird).Nice photos!John Shortis.On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 07:49:07 PM MDT, Louisa Evers <elouisa603@…> wrote:It’s an immature Cooper’s hawkOn Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 7:47 PM Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…> wrote:Came across this hawk in the foothills this afternoon. First thought was a sharp-shinned, but it seems too large. Is this another form of red tail morph?Thanks,Tom Soniville
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End—
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End——
Ken Miracle
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End<DSC_8564m1.jpg>
Ken Miracle
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
Re: Hawk ID
Ken,
First of all, great pictures. Second, I wish I had you kitchen window. Here is one more picture. It is a terrible view of everything, except for the tail, so maybe that will help. I would say it looks like the tail on Coopers.
Thanks to everyone for a lively discussion, it has been very educational.
Tom Soniville
Re: Hawk ID
I have seen the variety of streaking size and shape but one thing that has been constant i the extension of it into the undertail coverts and I have only seen that on the Northern Goshawk.
On Apr 4, 2023, at 9:18 AM, scott urban <scotturban610@…> wrote:
I agree with Ken and Louisa, it’s good for immature Cooper, not Goshawk. Just for fun, here is a side-by-side picture of each bird, both taken out my kitchen window a few years ago. (Boise Foothills). I don’t completely trust the streaking pattern on these Coops as a primary identification: I have pictures of Coopers that show a range from bold teardrops, to thin streaks. I guess for me that feature falls under the category of “usually but not always”.On Apr 4, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Louisa Evers <elouisa603@…> wrote:
The belly markings are not heavy enough and the wrong shape for an immature goshawk.On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 7:31 AM David Whitacre <davewhitacre@…> wrote:I think Tom McCabe is right…my immediate take was Goshawk, and I still think so. Tom Soniville says he never saw a Coop close to this size…and everything about this bird looks super robust…plus very heavy breast/belly/flank markings that extend quite far down the belly as is typical for Gos…too bad one can’t see the tail bands better to look for the wavy margins typical of a Goshawk, but still…Dave WhitacreOn Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 8:51 PM bike4birds <tmccabe9@…> wrote:I know I’m late to this party, but I wonder if this could be an immature N. Goshawk? Size is hard to figure in a photo, but Tom said it was quite large. I agree that females are larger than males in most raptors, but I’m wondering if we
are all assuming the typical hawk for this area, but it’s the time of year when ANYTHINJG could be coming through, especially given the weather. I have only occasionally seen a N. Goshawk in Boise, but it wouldn’t be unheard of. And, yes, it does have the
teardrop markings, but it also appears to have a white eyebrow line.Just sayin’.
Tom McCabe, Boise
From: IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Louisa Evers
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 7:49 PM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk ID
May also be a female as they are bigger than males.
On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 18:25 Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…> wrote:
John and Louisa,
Thanks for setting me straight. What threw me was the size of this Coopers. We would get them in the yard of our house in the North End, but never saw one close to this size. It
must be eating well .
Tom Soniville
From:
IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io>
On Behalf Of John Shortis via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 10:20 AM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk ID
Looks like Cooper’s.
The “teardrop” shaped streaks on this juvenile bird is indicative of Cooper’s.
Also the rounded tail (though not glaringly evident on this bird).
Nice photos!
John Shortis.
On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 07:49:07 PM MDT, Louisa Evers <elouisa603@…>
wrote:
It’s an immature Cooper’s hawk
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 7:47 PM Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…>
wrote:Came across this hawk in the foothills this afternoon. First thought was a sharp-shinned, but it seems too large. Is this
another form of red tail morph?
Thanks,
Tom Soniville
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End
—
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End—
—
Ken Miracle
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
Re: Hawk ID
I agree with Ken and Louisa, it’s good for immature Cooper, not Goshawk. Just for fun, here is a side-by-side picture of each bird, both taken out my kitchen window a few years ago. (Boise Foothills). I don’t completely trust the streaking pattern on these Coops as a primary identification: I have pictures of Coopers that show a range from bold teardrops, to thin streaks. I guess for me that feature falls under the category of “usually but not always”.
Re: Hawk ID
I agree with Louisa this is not a Northern Goshawk. Besides not being large enough the belly markings do not extend all the way onto the undertail coverts. The eyebrow looks consistent to what I have seen many times on an immature Cooper’s Hawk and not prominent or white enough for Northern Goshawk.
On Apr 4, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Louisa Evers <elouisa603@…> wrote:
The belly markings are not heavy enough and the wrong shape for an immature goshawk.On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 7:31 AM David Whitacre <davewhitacre@…> wrote:I think Tom McCabe is right…my immediate take was Goshawk, and I still think so. Tom Soniville says he never saw a Coop close to this size…and everything about this bird looks super robust…plus very heavy breast/belly/flank markings that extend quite far down the belly as is typical for Gos…too bad one can’t see the tail bands better to look for the wavy margins typical of a Goshawk, but still…Dave WhitacreOn Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 8:51 PM bike4birds <tmccabe9@…> wrote:I know I’m late to this party, but I wonder if this could be an immature N. Goshawk? Size is hard to figure in a photo, but Tom said it was quite large. I agree that females are larger than males in most raptors, but I’m wondering if we
are all assuming the typical hawk for this area, but it’s the time of year when ANYTHINJG could be coming through, especially given the weather. I have only occasionally seen a N. Goshawk in Boise, but it wouldn’t be unheard of. And, yes, it does have the
teardrop markings, but it also appears to have a white eyebrow line.Just sayin’.
Tom McCabe, Boise
From: IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Louisa Evers
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 7:49 PM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk ID
May also be a female as they are bigger than males.
On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 18:25 Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…> wrote:
John and Louisa,
Thanks for setting me straight. What threw me was the size of this Coopers. We would get them in the yard of our house in the North End, but never saw one close to this size. It
must be eating well .
Tom Soniville
From:
IBLE@groups.io <IBLE@groups.io>
On Behalf Of John Shortis via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 10:20 AM
To: IBLE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IBLE] Hawk ID
Looks like Cooper’s.
The “teardrop” shaped streaks on this juvenile bird is indicative of Cooper’s.
Also the rounded tail (though not glaringly evident on this bird).
Nice photos!
John Shortis.
On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 07:49:07 PM MDT, Louisa Evers <elouisa603@…>
wrote:
It’s an immature Cooper’s hawk
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 7:47 PM Tom & Susan Soniville <tomnsueid@…>
wrote:Came across this hawk in the foothills this afternoon. First thought was a sharp-shinned, but it seems too large. Is this
another form of red tail morph?
Thanks,
Tom Soniville
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End
—
—
Tom Soniville
Boise. North End—
—
Ken Miracle
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
chukar28@…
208-570-2780
“Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2COR 3:5
Re: Hawk ID
The belly markings are not heavy enough and the wrong shape for an immature goshawk.
Re: Hawk ID
I think Tom McCabe is right…my immediate take was Goshawk, and I still think so. Tom Soniville says he never saw a Coop close to this size…and everything about this bird looks super robust…plus very heavy breast/belly/flank markings that extend quite far down the belly as is typical for Gos…too bad one can’t see the tail bands better to look for the wavy margins typical of a Goshawk, but still…
Dave Whitacre