Thanks to all that gave me suggestions where to find the Crossbill.  Being Labor Day weekend, the campgrounds were filling up and I decided to look where fewer people were.  I went up FR 570 past a Pine stand and parked.  As soon as I got out of the truck I heard Crossbills.  A female and male flew to a top of a Pine tree and I glassed them for about a minute.  The call was definitely Cassia and I visually confirmed it.  Within 3 to 4 minutes they had moved on and all was quiet, I guess right place at the right time.For all those hard-core birders out there, I have a question for you.  I consider myself a visual birder and have only counted birds that I have been able to verify visually.  On a few occasions I have spotted birds others have missed because of my ability to observe abnormalities’ (I saw the Mexican Spotted Owl in Scheelite Canyon when two groups had missed it, on a log in the ravine next to the trail).  I have struggled with whether or not I should count birds heard but not seen.  I heard a Mexican Whip-poor-will in Medera Canyon, but did not see it nor was I going to go up a trail in the dark by myself.  My question for you is, should a bird be counted on a life list if it is heard but not seen?  And if so, to what limits should it count.  If you hear an Owl a mile away do you count it, or should it be within a distance that you could visually I.D. it?  Certain birds may be extremely hard to visually I.D., but easier with vocals.

Thanks again,Brad Hardenburger